The Record

Transcript of Report May 27th and May 28th, 1875

OFFICE OF INDIAN AFFAIRS
Indian Talks May 27 and 28 1875
Reports of interviews between Secretary of Interior, Commissioner of Indian Affairs and Sioux delegation May 27 & 28 1875

.Council with Delegation from Red Cloud and Spotted Tail Agencies held by Assistant Secretary and Commissioner of Indian Affairs.  May 28th 1875 (handwritten) 

SECTY COWEN. Who do you want for an interpreter? ANS.  Mr. Randall. SECTY COWEN.

The President was not able to come today.  He intended to, but it was impossible, and he sent word for you to talk in the presence of myself, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and Prof. Marsh.  We will have your words written down and will report them to the President, who will see you again and have an addtional talk with you on this subject. We understand that you, or Red Cloud, at least, wants to make some complaints about the condition of affairs at the agency, and we want to hear all he has to say.  Mr. hinman is here and can make any correections and suggestions if he thinks there is any mistake in the interpretation.  RED CLOUD. There is something that is going on that does not please me altogether, and that is th reason we have come to have you explain it.  
    What I first want to speak about is the Nebraska Line.  I also come to speak about matters about the agency.  I come to see and tell my great father that thse were some of our people last year that did not get blankets and clothing sufficient.  We suffered with cold.      Look at me my father; I am a man.  My friend I knew my grandfather does not know these things.      There is another thing:  The provisions that were brought — bought and sent to us, the different kinds of provisions, flour, sugar, cofee and tobacco.  The agents do not buy, but they examine our provisions and every thing that was sent to us.  (To Prof. Marsh). Did you bring those samples of the things I gave you last summer. PROF. MARSH     I showed them to the Great Father, and told him what you told me to tell him. RED CLOUD     That was the dea of the people of my band in giving you those samples.  For two years we were furnished with beef, and when they were weighed, some were small and some were large, but they weighed them altogether.  I don’t want to lay the blame for this on any one in this matter, I don’t know who is to blame.  I think my great Father sends me the kind of provision as he promised to do, and the number that he promised.  Last winter we lived very hard.  It was a hard winter for us, for one or two months we lived very hard.  We had not fresh portk, it was all barreled pork, and we don’t like that kind of pork.  The tobacco we get is not very good, it does not suit us, we cannot smoke it well; it i sweet and has molasses in it;and is sticky and won’t smoke.  In regard to blankets, we are a large people; we want large blankets to wear.  A great many of our blankets were branded like soldier’s blankets.  We don’t like to have them branded in this way, like soldiers.
    That is what I have to say, and I am telling the truth.  I call on the Great SPirit to witness that I am telling the truth.  MR MARSH.  I want to know if he is complaining of the quantity or quality of his provisions. RED CLOUD     A portion of our flour was very bad this year, and the barreled pork we don’t like.  The tobacco was bad, too, and some of our sugar was bad.  Portions of all of these articles were bad.  The pork was all bad.  GEN COWEN. About what proportion of these things were bad? RED CLOUD The amounts probably in the tribes were five or six wagon loads last year.  The wagons are not covered and it rains in our country and they get wet sometimes in crossing the river; and that might possible be the reason these things were bad.  Some of the flour is black and we cannot eat it.  The sugar is the same way.  And comes there wet but it might have been rained on in crossing the river.  The sugar last year was yellow, and we don’t like that kind. GEN COWEN.     What comlaint have you to make about the cattle? RED CLOUD.     The cattle that are drive are small, from yearlings up to three years old, mostly small beeves.  Many that are driven to us are small.  There are yearling calves among them.  They give these small cattle and calves to the indian without weighing them. COMMR.     You receive these cattle when they are given to you. RED CLOU.     it is the calves they take out of the herd and don’t weigh them, and give them to us.  That is all I have to say.  I just wanted to tell you about the quality of the provisions. COMMR. — Do you know about the contractor keeping cattle by themselves that are sick or lame? RED CLOUD — the beef contrcator gives beeves there every twelve days; and there is a place where they put those cattle by themselves.  COMMR.  — They don’t issue the sick or lame cattle to the indians, do they? RED CLOUD. — Out of the cattle that are driven there, some few of them are lame, and they are all put together; and the agent issues them to the indians. COMMR>. — You mean that these cattle are issued to the indians, or taken care of by the agent? RED CLOUD — The cattle are brought there by the contractor, and weighed and turned over to the agent, and are issued to us by the agent,. COMMR. —You don’t understand.  You say there is a herd of cattle that are sick and lame, and are kept by themselves - do these cattle belong to the contractor or the indians? RED CLOUD. — I don’t seem to understand about these lame cattle.  The cattle are driven through by the contrcator, and delivered to the agent by the contractor, and then kept by the agent. COMMR. —Are these sick and lame cattle kept by the agent? RED CLOUD>. — I am now referring to last winter.  Then the cattle came in there and some of them were poor; and these were some that were left after the contractor had delivered them, there were some that were left and kept in the herd. COMMR. — Who kept them? RED CLOUD. - The agent’s man, a mexican, an employee of the agent who had the cattle in charge, COMMR.  —How many of these cattle were there? RED CLOUD — A Few.  COMMR>. -  How many? RED CLOUD. —From 60 to 70, perhaps over. COMMR. - Had those cattle been weighed? REd Cloud.  Yes sir. COMMR.  What became of the cattle? RED CLOUD.  I am speaking now of the cattle that strayed off, it was very cold weather, and storms drove them off. COMMR>. — I want to ask again what became of those cattle? |RED CLOUD. — The cattle that were over were driven there, and the amount that was over more than was issued, the agent gave to the indians one each to the families around. COMMR>. - Does the agent generally do that? RED CLOUD.  The cattle were not issued very regularly.  It was a very hard winter.  SOmetimes there were cattle more than enough for one issue, an the dw over, the agent would give those cattle to the indians as far as they would go.  A good many froze to death, and many when men froze at the time.  It was hard to get the cattle together to issue. COMMR.  —These cattle were issued by the agent after the issue was made?  Didn’t you say just now that the cattle were kept byt hte Mexican herder? RED CLOUD. — That was when there was na over issue; They — HINMAN (Interrupting INterpreter Randall) He didn’t say that at all. RANDALL.  That was what he meant. COMMR.  I want you to say what Red Cloud says. RED CLOUD.  These cattle that were left over at the issue, were put in the herd kept by his nephew the herder.  These cattle were put there and when they were dying with the cold weather, they were given out to the indians. COMMR> — But I ask you now about the cattle that were kept by themselves.  I asked you that to begin with.  These were cattle that were kept with the herd. SPOTTED TAIL. — Those cattle that were poor and sick, died.  They did not keep them up and they died. COMMR. — Spotted Tail doesn’t know that I am aksing Red Cloud, you say, Red Cloud, that there was a herd of sick and lame cattle kept by themselves.  DO you say so or did I misunderstand you? RED CLOUD.  The cattle were brought up by the contractors to the agency.  They were weighed and turned ovr to the agent, and the agent keeps a herd there, and sometimes there are more cattle there than are HINMAN (interrupting the intperpreter) — He doesn’t say that; he says the cattle were brought from a great way off.  While on the way, they belonged to the man who brought them.  After they were turned over to the agent, they belonged to him, but I don’t know who took out the lame cattle or who they belonged to. COMMR.  Now I want to speak of those 60 or 70 that were left over one time.  At what time was that issue? RED CLOUD — In December. COMMR.  — What was the time when these cattle were turned into the herd? RED CLOUD.  Right after. COMMR>. —Did you go with Gen. Bradley to see some cattle? RED CLOUD.  —Yes. COMMR.  When was that? RED CLOUD.  That was after this time. COMMR>. Where did you go?  RED CLOUD.  Went to Above the agency, above the military camp. COMMR.  What herd of cattle did you go to? RED CLOUD.  I wnet to a herd that was kept on this branch by the agent. HINMAN - He Didn’t say that. COMMR.  - Weer they kept by the contractor or by the agent? RED CLOUD.  I don’t know.  The cattle came together.  They were cattle that were let overk and were kept herded on this creek. COMMR>. Who was herding them? RED CLOUD.  A Mexican and and a nephew of the agent. COMMR.  - How many cattle were there? RED CLOUD.  I did not count them. COMMR. - Can’t you tell whether there were ten or one hundred? RED CLOUD.  Eight. COMMR>. Were these the kind, were they just such cattle as you had been receiving all winter? RED CLOUD.  —The cattle that were there were the poor cattle that were left out of the herd.  Those were the poor ones that were rejected.  COMMR.  —Then you don’t mean to say that the cattle that were given you were as poor and as bad as these cattle? RED CLOUD.  During the winter a great many good beeves were given.